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Thanks, I wanted to start out the thread in a coherent way. Not just start it and for us to start over.

I also try to keep things organized, LOL

I like that you chose extreme dislike - because hate is such a strong word that I think dislike works better even if it needs a qualifier. And I try not to use the word hate.

Not debating you - just discussing things.   Tossing some stuff out there for further discussion.

Marvel needs to write Rogue differently. And while I don't know what that should be, I know the last 15 years has been painful. From "Ah can't control mah powers", to over abundance of angst when it comes to Gambit. Then the Legacy Mary Sue syndrome she picked up. There is not one thing I can list as a positive for her. It's possible she needs a solo or mini just get her in a better spot.

I don't see any value or positives in the romy relationship. Its been done so badly. Yes, both characters have baggage and all that but as you pointed out how you see Havok as abusive. I see Rogue the same way when it comes to Gambit.

I never bought the hall pass Marvel gave her either with Antarctica. But I can't change that either.

I will say, I have enjoyed not buying books she is in, and only getting info on the net or from somebody who has done scans.

You are right in our similarity.

I don't mind discussing her as long as a few things don't happen - you know ... the crystal ball of what will be that no one knows because we don't work for Marvel type stuff. And example would be "Rogue and Gambit will eventually get back together, its inevitable" ... actually no. Until you get a writer who wants to write it ... not gonna happen. Never say never but to force a claim like that on others (like a fact) is bothersome. My other disliked thing that has been said to me over the years is "Gambit would not have stories without Rogue". No one knows that either and trust me that sort of thing irks. Though, its not been said to me in recent years, I haven't forgotten the ego of the fans who have said that sort of thing.

I don't have a good stopping point, its my awareness that this is a wall of text that makes me stop. Mostly because .. I'm doing what makes me groan at other places. LOL