Post by Icefanatic on Oct 29, 2019 16:52:49 GMT -5
From a discussion at CBR...
Originally Posted by Electricmastro
So then, in regards to what you said by “Final Solution,” did you mean parallels to this?: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
Originally Posted by JTFSXX
What of Xavier's Dream?
One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?
What of Xavier's Dream?
One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?
Originally Posted by hawkeyefan
Serious question that maybe will help shed some light on the topic....to those who think the dream is dead, what do you consider Xavier’s new goal to be?
If it’s not peaceful co-existence, then what do you think it is and why?
Serious question that maybe will help shed some light on the topic....to those who think the dream is dead, what do you consider Xavier’s new goal to be?
If it’s not peaceful co-existence, then what do you think it is and why?
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
Safety and survival of Mutants. As has been demonstrated in HoX/PoX, they believe this can only be achieved by eliminating the intrinsic threat posed by the existence of Humans.
Step One, Separation from Humans.
Step Two, Subjugation of Humans.
Step Three, Eradication of Humans.
The Final Solution of the Human Problem can be achieved by letting evolution take it's natural course coupled with preventing Humans from doing anything to change their doomed fate.
Provided Xavier/Magneto/Apocalypse have the patience for that and don't pursue a more direct solution...
Safety and survival of Mutants. As has been demonstrated in HoX/PoX, they believe this can only be achieved by eliminating the intrinsic threat posed by the existence of Humans.
Step One, Separation from Humans.
Step Two, Subjugation of Humans.
Step Three, Eradication of Humans.
The Final Solution of the Human Problem can be achieved by letting evolution take it's natural course coupled with preventing Humans from doing anything to change their doomed fate.
Provided Xavier/Magneto/Apocalypse have the patience for that and don't pursue a more direct solution...
Originally Posted by hawkeyefan
Step one seems accurate.
Where do you get steps two through four? I mean, within the books that have been released so far?
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
Safety and survival of Mutants. As has been demonstrated in HoX/PoX, they believe this can only be achieved by eliminating the intrinsic threat posed by the existence of Humans.
Step One, Separation from Humans.
Step Two, Subjugation of Humans.
Step Three, Eradication of Humans.
The Final Solution of the Human Problem can be achieved by letting evolution take it's natural course coupled with preventing Humans from doing anything to change their doomed fate.
Provided Xavier/Magneto/Apocalypse have the patience for that and don't pursue a more direct solution...
Safety and survival of Mutants. As has been demonstrated in HoX/PoX, they believe this can only be achieved by eliminating the intrinsic threat posed by the existence of Humans.
Step One, Separation from Humans.
Step Two, Subjugation of Humans.
Step Three, Eradication of Humans.
The Final Solution of the Human Problem can be achieved by letting evolution take it's natural course coupled with preventing Humans from doing anything to change their doomed fate.
Provided Xavier/Magneto/Apocalypse have the patience for that and don't pursue a more direct solution...
Step one seems accurate.
Where do you get steps two through four? I mean, within the books that have been released so far?
Originally Posted by MyriVerse
Segregation and all the evils that come with it-- supremacism, etc. Populations that live separate will grow further apart. Absolutely. There's no middle ground.
Segregation and all the evils that come with it-- supremacism, etc. Populations that live separate will grow further apart. Absolutely. There's no middle ground.
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
Logic and reasoning.
We know from PoX that unfettered, Humans will continue to advance technology and technology will continue to advance humans. Through that, Humans will pose an increasing threat to Mutants. It will ultimately require Subjugation to prevent Humans from attaining that advancement. Krakoa provides for the possibility of advancement of Mutant-based-biology-based technology that cannot be utilized by Humans, which should allow for deprival of advanced technology from Humans while providing for parallel advancement of Mutants.
Subjugation, like Separation, will ultimately be a temporary solution to the longer-term Human Problem. Eradication through degrees of passive and active action will be the only viable Final Solution to the Human Problem.
Originally Posted by hawkeyefan
Step one seems accurate.
Where do you get steps two through four? I mean, within the books that have been released so far?
Step one seems accurate.
Where do you get steps two through four? I mean, within the books that have been released so far?
Logic and reasoning.
We know from PoX that unfettered, Humans will continue to advance technology and technology will continue to advance humans. Through that, Humans will pose an increasing threat to Mutants. It will ultimately require Subjugation to prevent Humans from attaining that advancement. Krakoa provides for the possibility of advancement of Mutant-based-biology-based technology that cannot be utilized by Humans, which should allow for deprival of advanced technology from Humans while providing for parallel advancement of Mutants.
Subjugation, like Separation, will ultimately be a temporary solution to the longer-term Human Problem. Eradication through degrees of passive and active action will be the only viable Final Solution to the Human Problem.
Originally Posted by Zelena
Charming.
10ch
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
Logic and reasoning.
We know from PoX that unfettered, Humans will continue to advance technology and technology will continue to advance humans. Through that, Humans will pose an increasing threat to Mutants. It will ultimately require Subjugation to prevent Humans from attaining that advancement. Krakoa provides for the possibility of advancement of Mutant-based-biology-based technology that cannot be utilized by Humans, which should allow for deprival of advanced technology from Humans while providing for parallel advancement of Mutants.
Subjugation, like Separation, will ultimately be a temporary solution to the longer-term Human Problem. Eradication through degrees of passive and active action will be the only viable Final Solution to the Human Problem.
Logic and reasoning.
We know from PoX that unfettered, Humans will continue to advance technology and technology will continue to advance humans. Through that, Humans will pose an increasing threat to Mutants. It will ultimately require Subjugation to prevent Humans from attaining that advancement. Krakoa provides for the possibility of advancement of Mutant-based-biology-based technology that cannot be utilized by Humans, which should allow for deprival of advanced technology from Humans while providing for parallel advancement of Mutants.
Subjugation, like Separation, will ultimately be a temporary solution to the longer-term Human Problem. Eradication through degrees of passive and active action will be the only viable Final Solution to the Human Problem.
Charming.
10ch
Originally Posted by Electricmastro
Oh boy, this went down a deep rabbit hole...
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
"Final Solution"
"Final Solution"
Oh boy, this went down a deep rabbit hole...
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
To be clear, I am not in favor of that, quite the opposite.
It just seems the logical outcome give the new premise/setup.
There are clear parallels. Once you see the very existence of humans being depicted as a threat to the continued existence of mutants, and, to be fair, thanks to Moira's alternate lives that isn't just bigoted hyperbole...
Before, the goal was peaceful coexistence, and the threat to that was human bigotry.
Now, the goal is mutant survival and the threat is continued human existence.
Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence...
Originally Posted by Zelena
Charming.
10ch
Charming.
10ch
To be clear, I am not in favor of that, quite the opposite.
It just seems the logical outcome give the new premise/setup.
Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro
Oh boy, this went down a deep rabbit hole...
Oh boy, this went down a deep rabbit hole...
There are clear parallels. Once you see the very existence of humans being depicted as a threat to the continued existence of mutants, and, to be fair, thanks to Moira's alternate lives that isn't just bigoted hyperbole...
Before, the goal was peaceful coexistence, and the threat to that was human bigotry.
Now, the goal is mutant survival and the threat is continued human existence.
Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence...
Originally Posted by Electricmastro
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
There are clear parallels. Once you see the very existence of humans being depicted as a threat to the continued existence of mutants, and, to be fair, thanks to Moira's alternate lives that isn't just bigoted hyperbole... Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence.
There are clear parallels. Once you see the very existence of humans being depicted as a threat to the continued existence of mutants, and, to be fair, thanks to Moira's alternate lives that isn't just bigoted hyperbole... Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence.
So then, in regards to what you said by “Final Solution,” did you mean parallels to this?: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
Originally Posted by Icefanatic
Yes. I edited my post to better articulate what I was saying.
I don't think' 'Xavier'(I don't seem him as the real Xavier) is there yet.
I think he will try Separation. It will not eliminate the threat posed by Humans. Then he will try Subjugation to minimize the threat of Humans until they die off 'naturally'.. Ultimately, with the backing of Magneto and Apocalypse he will probably pursue more proactive means of eliminating the threat of humanity.
The goalposts have been moved. As I said in my edit:
Originally Posted by Electricmastro
So then, in regards to what you said by “Final Solution,” did you mean parallels to this?: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
So then, in regards to what you said by “Final Solution,” did you mean parallels to this?: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
Yes. I edited my post to better articulate what I was saying.
I don't think' 'Xavier'(I don't seem him as the real Xavier) is there yet.
I think he will try Separation. It will not eliminate the threat posed by Humans. Then he will try Subjugation to minimize the threat of Humans until they die off 'naturally'.. Ultimately, with the backing of Magneto and Apocalypse he will probably pursue more proactive means of eliminating the threat of humanity.
The goalposts have been moved. As I said in my edit:
Before, the goal was peaceful coexistence, and the threat to that was human bigotry.
Now, the goal is mutant survival and the threat is continued human existence.
Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence...
Now, the goal is mutant survival and the threat is continued human existence.
Well, there's only so many ways you can combat existence...
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