ICEMAN - Ongoing Series - General Discussion

Hey man, good to see you! Hope your computer stays fixed!

I was having computer problems for a few weeks there myself, so I feel you. Mine turned out not to be the computer after all but the modem. Just when I was starting to get back to posting here, no internet! Got a new one so *fingers crossed* that that problem is now fixed.

That part I bolded in your post is so true for me, as well. I haven't bought or read a Marvel comic in almost a year now, or a DC comic for a few years. With DC, after they rebooted their entire universe and fundamentally changed so many of their characters, it was like a bunch of my friends *died*, and rather than acknowledge that and morn them, it felt like DC just gave me a bunch of impostors to take their place. I know with 'Rebirth' they tried to make things at least look more like they use to, to make things right for the fans, but short of another universal reboot, so many things and people I loved are gone and not coming back that it makes trying to follow their new universe and characters a miserable experience for me(It would be akin to Marvel replacing their existing universe with the Ultimate Universe, familiar faces and names, but often very different people with different lives and stories); and even if I did manage somehow to do it, I know they'll just reboot again in another few years and I'll have to start all over again. Just not worth the effort for me.

With Marvel, when prices were cheaper(around $2.00) I was getting about twenty monthly books, most of their line at the time(about 15 years ago, give or take)

Uncanny X-Men
X-Men
X-Factor
X-Force
Excalibur
Wolverine
Cable
Deadpool
Avengers
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor
Incredible Hulk
Fantastic Four
Amazing Spider-Man
Peter Parker: Spider-Man
Daredevil
Punisher

Now, either the title doesn't exist anymore, or the book that shares it's name doesn't remotely resemble what I loved. The characters have either been replaced, or don't feel like the people I knew. There's a couple of Marvel's current books I could stomach reading, but I've had enough of buying and reading books I don't really like and don't really want just to hang on to characters and a universe that feels increasingly false to me. I just don't feel much of any connection to the current Marvel Universe. I haven't given up on comics, I just stick with mostly Valiant and Image and a few others.

I've been reading up on stuff that happened in the books while I was away, and, with rare exception, I'm just glad I didn't waste my time or money on any of it. I'm happier not buying and reading. I still have my back issues, movies and TV series, novels and merchandise. For me, I think my Marvel Universe now lies in the past. I'd much rather dig through the back issue bins than buy anything current from off the wall. Back issues from years ago make me far happier, and the books are generally much cheaper, too.



Cool toy! (see what I did there ) The last bit of Iceman merchandise I picked up was last year, the Iceman chess piece and collector magazine that came with it.


What you said, that's what being a true fan is, you make something a part of you and you a part of it. Without Iceman, I feel like I'm missing a limb or something. He's not just my favorite X-Man, or my favorite Marvel Character, or my favorite comic book character; he's my favorite character in all of fiction.

He's...my avatar in another world...me, and yet not me at the same time. And they way I connected to him most was his attraction to and dysfunctional relationships with girls; which somewhat mirrors my own life. Except I'm not gay. Now that's gone, and with it most of my connection to him. He's a limb that's gone...numb. He's...separate...from me in a way he's never been. That immediate connection...that sense of being simpatico...is gone.



For me, this is more like having a straight friend who a neighbor thinks is gay, and that neighbor goes to someone with godlike power over my friend and makes him gay to satisfy my neighbor's view of him. As much as I would accept my friend as he now is, my goal would be to get him back to who he really is, and I know buying this series isn't going to help with getting Iceman back to who he really is.

DC fans didn't get as much of the DC universe put back the way it was as they did by just accepting the 'New 52'. They fought for what they knew to be right, they resisted, and they won(at least as much as they could. Hell, they even got the original Wally West back, which I didn't think was even remotely possible). I intend to fight for Iceman as the person he was for over fifty years of a continuous fictional life(this wasn't character development, this was a retcon and a lie forced upon him because of rampant trolling on social media, and now other writers are trying to mop up after the fact).

If this stands, where does it stop?

Right after the issue of All-New hit, there was a thread on CBR. "Now that Iceman has been made gay, can Storm be made into a man, or revealed to have always been one."

Because, like Iceman, there's a group of Storm fans who see her as a man(And like Iceman, there's a larger group of trolls who like to say she's a man to troll the majority of Storm fans who KNOW she is a woman)

There was this exchange on a forum for a Marvel X-Men game right after the issue of All New hit. I'm editing it down for brevity and relevance.

------------------------------

I'm surprised there's nothing on the forums here about what just happened with teen Iceman in the comics. Nobody flame me for being a phobe, I'm gay myself, I just don't buy it. That's not who he is.

Most people here don't really read the comics or follow what happens in them.

Personally, I've always though Drake was a little light in the loafers, but then I tend to think most comic book characters are gay.

That's because most comic book characters ARE gay.

Guys, I'm serious.

It's probably just some alternate reality version anyway.

But what if it's not? If they do that with the adult, then what, it's all just stories and nothing means anything anymore?

Pretty much.

It's been heading that way for a while now.

As a lesbian, I just feel pandered to. When I think of how many of their LGBT characters, some of the fan favorites, are in limbo right now, some for years, I find all this insulting.

Marvel only cares about LGBTQ characters they can get press from. No one outside comics even knows who Ric and Shat are.

I only care about what happens in the comics when it affects hitpoints in the game.

QFT!

--------------------------------

The harder Marvel or DC tries to be relevant with crap like this, the less relevant they become. It all becomes a bunch of meaningless stories. If more fans had stood up and said, NO! NO! AND HELL NO! when things started going wrong with various X-characters, and X-teams, and the X-franchise as a whole; then maybe things wouldn't be in the sorry state they are now. But with most of those things, it was a slow erosion, and people didn't see what was being lost until it was already gone and already too damn late.

I have a theory(and apparently theories are all the rage now! ) that the adult Iceman currently in the comics is NOT 616 Iceman, and even who he actually is! I've run it by a few people here and elsewhere and pretty much everyone thinks it is a sound theory and explains a lot that doesn't otherwise make sense. I'm only discussing it in PM because if I'm right I don't want to do anything to jinx it by having Marvel change the plan, and because I don't want to potentially spoil things for anyone if I'm right. I've run it by cc008, and if neko and profezzorx sign off on it, I'll bring the theory into the "I don't think this is over" PM and we can all discuss it there.

Marvel's argument for doing this is the fans that pushed for it(they are literally blaming those fans in the face of criticism from the majority), and if they undo it they will blame the fans again, saying the fans didn't want it. Well, I'm doing my part to help that. I want the old Iceman back!