Post by Icefanatic on Jul 3, 2015 16:11:38 GMT -5
The link to the article with excerpts on Bleeding Cool:
www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/02/fanboy-rampage-john-byrne-vs-dan-slott-2/
And the thread from Byrne's forum in it's entirety:
www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48945&PN=0&TPN=1
Not going to quote any of the conversation, it is too long, but I really agree with Byrne.(That being said, Slott came off as nice and professional while Byrne came off as rude, at least to me. Byrne is also a bit of a hypocrite after things like Spider-Man: Chapter One and quite a few other examples. It's one of those situations where you have the guy at the bar calling the people to the left and the right of him alcoholics, while thinking they are fine). I think the difference in this case is the changes being made are line-wide, are perpetually reoccurring and the level of it and the constantness of it are driving more fans away than bringing in new ones. It's the excess of it, just like the excesses we saw during the speculator boom in the 90's. Gimmicks, stunts, rectons, trying to reinvent everything and everyone to fit new sensibilities. Everything was dark and edgy and all the female characters were becoming 'bad girls' with disappearing costumes. Like comics had become a 'heavy metal' music video. It brought in a bunch of new fans, but then that bubble burst and most of those new fans left and took a lot of the older fans with them. There's no bubble to burst this time. They screw this up, comics are done. We are at the edge of a $5.00 price-point, in April only 37 comics sold at over 50,000 print issues in North America(most estimates put digital sales at about 1/3 print), and several were barely above that 50,000.
My take: In the hopes of trying to attract new readers to their declining customer base, Marvel and DC continue to make changes moving their characters away from being the characters fans have known and loved for decades instead of addressing the actual initial reasons for the problem, the expensiveness of comics and their inaccessibility for purchasing.
What they are doing will give them some short-term gains, but will only further the long-term losses they are already experiencing. Serial fiction with iconic properties survives in part by being a constant, a form of comfort food if you will, and most people consistently support things because it provides a consistent product.
Marvel has said what they want in pitches from writers is a new take on a character they haven't seen before, and that's what we keep getting from Marvel and DC; new writer, new take, reboot, retcon, retool, new #1... I'm tired of it and a lot of other people are too.
It doesn't matter to me at this point whether the stories are ultimately any good or not, I don't want to read them. If I want a hot dog or a hamburger, it doesn't matter how good the sushi someone is offering me is, that isn't what I want. Marvel and DC are not giving me what I want as a customer, and while that has been declining somewhat over time, it practically fell off a cliff in the past few years with both companies. I'd say DC was practically perfect, if such a thing exists, prior to Countdown/Final Crisis/Flashpoint/New 52. They left me as a customer who bought over a dozen monthly titles so fed up I completely cut ties with them as a company.
I fear I am on the same trajectory with Marvel.
www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/02/fanboy-rampage-john-byrne-vs-dan-slott-2/
And the thread from Byrne's forum in it's entirety:
www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48945&PN=0&TPN=1
Fanboy Rampage: John Byrne Vs. Dan Slott
Posted July 2, 2015 by by Rich Johnston
Comment
So Dan Slott is relaunching Amazing Spider-Man in October with a Peter Parker solicited as an international tech-company whiz. And naturally everyone wanted to see what the John Byrne Forum had to say. Here are select examples from a longer conversation between Byrne, Slott and member of the form. We’ve used red marks to show quotation, for clarity.
Not going to quote any of the conversation, it is too long, but I really agree with Byrne.(That being said, Slott came off as nice and professional while Byrne came off as rude, at least to me. Byrne is also a bit of a hypocrite after things like Spider-Man: Chapter One and quite a few other examples. It's one of those situations where you have the guy at the bar calling the people to the left and the right of him alcoholics, while thinking they are fine). I think the difference in this case is the changes being made are line-wide, are perpetually reoccurring and the level of it and the constantness of it are driving more fans away than bringing in new ones. It's the excess of it, just like the excesses we saw during the speculator boom in the 90's. Gimmicks, stunts, rectons, trying to reinvent everything and everyone to fit new sensibilities. Everything was dark and edgy and all the female characters were becoming 'bad girls' with disappearing costumes. Like comics had become a 'heavy metal' music video. It brought in a bunch of new fans, but then that bubble burst and most of those new fans left and took a lot of the older fans with them. There's no bubble to burst this time. They screw this up, comics are done. We are at the edge of a $5.00 price-point, in April only 37 comics sold at over 50,000 print issues in North America(most estimates put digital sales at about 1/3 print), and several were barely above that 50,000.
My take: In the hopes of trying to attract new readers to their declining customer base, Marvel and DC continue to make changes moving their characters away from being the characters fans have known and loved for decades instead of addressing the actual initial reasons for the problem, the expensiveness of comics and their inaccessibility for purchasing.
What they are doing will give them some short-term gains, but will only further the long-term losses they are already experiencing. Serial fiction with iconic properties survives in part by being a constant, a form of comfort food if you will, and most people consistently support things because it provides a consistent product.
Marvel has said what they want in pitches from writers is a new take on a character they haven't seen before, and that's what we keep getting from Marvel and DC; new writer, new take, reboot, retcon, retool, new #1... I'm tired of it and a lot of other people are too.
It doesn't matter to me at this point whether the stories are ultimately any good or not, I don't want to read them. If I want a hot dog or a hamburger, it doesn't matter how good the sushi someone is offering me is, that isn't what I want. Marvel and DC are not giving me what I want as a customer, and while that has been declining somewhat over time, it practically fell off a cliff in the past few years with both companies. I'd say DC was practically perfect, if such a thing exists, prior to Countdown/Final Crisis/Flashpoint/New 52. They left me as a customer who bought over a dozen monthly titles so fed up I completely cut ties with them as a company.
I fear I am on the same trajectory with Marvel.