ICEMAN - Ongoing Series - General Discussion

Posted this on CBR but I don't think I mentioned it here yet..

Last week when I went to pick up issue #3, I asked one of the workers at my LCS how Iceman was selling for them. He basically said not bad, and "definitely better than Jean Grey." Not that that part means anything, just what he told me lol. He also said that if we don't hear anything about any issues after #6, then there's a lot of uncertainty about whether the book will continue or not. Because if it gets to 5 or 6, they can collect it in trade and be done with it. Fortunately for us, Champions starts in 6 and is a 2 parter, which means we'll get a #7, obviously. He told me if it gets to 7, you can bet on it getting to at least 10 or 12.

I'm still a bit apprehensive about this book. I may just pick up the trade collection to play catch up. I watched an interview of someone interviewing Sina, discussing Iceman. And needless to say, I can't say that I liked Sina. You know that feeling you get when you see someone, and get a bad feeling about them. Then you try not to pass judgment on them until they open their mouth... Well, that was Sina. He just rubbed me the wrong way with his answers. If I didn't know any better, it seemed like this was just another gig for him, and Marvel gave it to him because he too just happens to be gay, and he'd be a great fit for this book. Although I have no proof to that allegation, but based on his lack of deep understanding and history of the character, one would think so. And to you guys, my apologies... I don't mean to pass judgment on people I don't know, but from the few interviews that I've seen on Sina and his demeanor, (in my opinion) he doesn't seem to genuinely care about the character. And that he's just pushing his "interpretation" of how Iceman should be shortly after coming out. Maybe you guys feel differently about Sina, or see some promise in his writing. I mean after all, I still haven't picked up the book, so who am I to criticize him... In any case, I just hope that things work out for the best for Iceman, because you guys know I love him to death. 

 

Your posts get me through the morning, Icefanatic. They really do lol.

I don't think anyone here is debating anybody's level of care for Iceman/Bobby Drake. I think the reason this thread has gone the way it has is because we, and the 3 of us in particular, care more than most about the character.

I agree, I think Sina cares and has been more upfront as a writer for Marvel than a lot of other writers ever will be. I appreciate the level of research he's done for Iceman. This is the first Iceman ongoing comic book EVER and I think he understands the magnitude of that. It's unfortunate, the amount of editorial mandates that are being handed down these days, that he probably IS handcuffed with what he would really want to write. But that goes for most writers these days at Marvel anyway, unless your initials are BMB, anyway.

It is though, a lot of the times, reading this book, with how Iceman acts and speaks sometimes so differently than the Iceman I know. But the story itself has been very good.

Sales for Iceman #3 hovering around 15,000.

Ouchtown.

The big blowout with the parents issue.

The actual holy grail for the Iceman-is-gay crowd. More then him dating guys, having him 'come out and confront his bigot father' is what most of them have been salivating over for decades, since Bobby brought Opal to diner with his parents and met with his dad's disapproval in the early nineties, which got a replay when he later brought home Rogue.

I'm not so sure qualifying William Drake as a racist or a bigot has ever been exactly right, though.

"One week she has green hair, then she's Italian, then she's Asian, and now she's a..."
"...what, a Mutant, Dad?"

I would imagine some of Bobby's dating choices, with his dad almost two generations removed, seems less to do with meeting the right girl and more to do with pushing boundaries and pushing his dad's boundaries; where for Bobby, I don't think Lorna's hair color, or any girl's race or mutation had anything at all to do with why he was interested in them. And I don't think any of that was designed to provoke his dad, though I doubt his dad would see it that way.

That fits with what I posted from the Hatchet Book Group a couple of weeks back. I wish the Champions reunion was going to be more than two issues. This will be the first time the whole team has been together(with Darkstar) since they disbanded, although they have reconnected in smaller groups over the years. John Blaze dropped in on Bobby and Warren when they were in the Defenders. Black Widow tried to get the Champions to replace the Avengers after the Avengers were believed dead in the late 90's. The whole team minus Darkstar did re-team in the X-Force/Champions Annual Vol 1 '98...

Warning, potential spoilers ahead:

ICEMAN #4

Synopsis: The story starts early morning at the Xavier Institute, with Bobby penning a letter to his parents after a workout with Kitty. He's decided to come out in a letter to his parents rather than face-to-face. Kitty agrees it may be easier on everyone that way. Zack(the brat they brought back to the mansion in issue two) is found to be missing. A check of his social media shows he is being taken to an exclusive, invite-only club by someone who seems a bit scary. Kitty tries to think of a way of getting inside(phasing, teleporting), but Bobby opts for a tuxedo and an ice-sculpture as an excuse to get through the door.

Once in, Bobby quickly runs into...Daken, who starts referring to Bobby as 'snowflake', and grabs him into a dance. Daken comments that "I know what you're capable of. I saw how big you got with the Apocalypse Seed in you--"(more on that below). Daken keeps flirting with Bobby, while Bobby basically just hates-on him back. Turns out Zack has fallen under Daken's influence, and prefers the life of crime and villainy Daken is offering rather than being a student at the Xavier school. Bobby and Daken dance and banter and argue, with Bobby ultimately freezing Daken from the inside-out!

Momentarily free from dealing with Daken, Bobby finds the actual person he came there looking for, Zack. Zack is talking smack to a group of club-goers and Bobby proceeds to intentionally embarrass the hell out of him. Once he gets Zack alone, he tries to get Zack to leave with him. When Zack refuses, Bobby moves to whip up some ice-restraints, only to find Zack using his mutant ability to amplify or suppress energy to dial Bobby's energy-based powers down to almost nothing.

Zack moves to leave as Daken, apparently healed from being frozen(not mentioned in the comic, but Daken's powers, which differ from his dad's to some degrees, include a special resistance to cold), attacks Bobby. Iceman fends him off easily and then sicks a bunch of Ice-dupes on Daken to pound on him and keep him occupied while Bobby tries once again to reason with Zack. Zack isn't having it, and boards a waiting helicopter.

Daken calls Bobby 'Snowflake' again and attacks one final time, only to find himself impaled on a giant snowflake made of ice, pinning him to a wall. Daken argues a bit more and calls Bobby a coward and says he can smell the fear on Bobby, and good luck getting the students to follow a leader who is so afraid.

The next morning, back at the school, Bobby is trying to explain to Kitty what happened to Zack, while she tries to explain that he has company. His parents have come for a visit. His mom offers to make breakfast and suggests after that he give them a tour.

Bobby responds with just two words: "I'm gay."

The Good: Another solid issue! You actually feel like you have read something with some substance and thought put into it when you finish one of Grace's Iceman books. Too many comics and some of the X-Books especially these days seem far too light on story/dialogue, and what is there often just seems a mess. Paying $4.00 for something that can sometimes take four minutes to read is ridiculous.

Glad to see Iceman showed no interest in Daken. Personally, I find Daken perpetually flirting with and hitting on people who often have no real interest in him kind of pathetic, and what interest there is is often just a manipulation of his pheromones. Iceman's stated low opinion of him seems much in line with my own.

While arguing/bantering with Daken and Zack, both managed to level some very valid criticisms with how things are being done at the school. Kitty and everyone else need to get their act more together, or Zack is not going to be the only one looking for an alternative or even just an exit.

Great seeing Daken get his ass handed to him. and I'm glad, not sorry, to see Zack go.

Anyone who has kept something BIG a secret from family/friends and struggled with how to tell them about it...or even if they should given the potential reaction, should be able to relate to how Bobby ultimately just ripped off the band-aid and told his folks he's gay. It's a good set-up for the next issue as it allows everyone to just jump right into things.

Again, the art was good. I have to say I prefer Edgar Salazar over regular artist Alessandro Vitti. Vitti is good, but gives everyone a rough texture which works somewhat for Bobby's parents given their age, but often Bobby and other younger characters end up looking just as haggard.

The Bad: The teen speak was dialed up to an ELEVEN, along with some oblique references many would have to use Google to get. Still, most of it came in the context of banter rather than serious conversation, which made for a better fit. I also don't really give a rat's ass about Daken or Zack(the way the story was told, I don't think the reader was really supposed to) so that eliminated any emotional investment I might otherwise have had if different characters were used.

The Other: Four long years ago, back during the "X-Termination" event, when Astonishing X-Men crossed over with the X-Treme X-Men and Age of Apocalypse comics, Iceman was forcibly implanted with a fragment of a Celestial Death Seed(aka Apocalypse Seed). In issues 62 through 65 of Astonishing X-Men, aka the 'Frozen' or 'Dark Iceman' arc, Iceman completely stopped suppressing his limitations on his powers, evolving into a dark and monstrous form. He sent the world into an Ice Age, while fighting off resistance from the world's superheroes including members of the X-Men, Avengers and the Fantastic Four. He could not be stopped and was finally only defeated by himself, as he fought off the influence of the Death Seed's corruption.

He killed and maimed untold numbers of people around the world, and nearly deliberately murdered his own father. Three issues later the series was cancelled and the events that happened regarding Iceman in that arc have never been acknowledged on-panel by any character in the four years since, until this issue.



It has never been mentioned or acknowledged in any way by Bobby, Kitty, the other X-Men, other superheroes, his parents or even ordinary people around the world that would have been impacted. Everyone seems to have forgotten it or it was erased from time itself, or some combination of the two.

Now...enter Daken, who was brought back to life in an alternate-future timeline by the Apocalypse Twins, using both the Celestial Life and Death Seeds, in order to serve as one of their Horsemen of Death...before eventually making his way back to Earth in the present.

Daken also has complete immunity to telepathy. His mind literally contains a "trap" that gives him the ability to control a telepath who has entered his mind and even restore any lost or altered memories, as seen in the X-Men: Original Sin storyline where Miss Sinister tried to implant false memories into Daken.

And he alone seems to be the ONE person who remembers what happened in the 'Frozen' arc. Even Bobby, after Daken says it, gives no indication or comment that what Daken said meant anything to him.

Interesting...

Made some minor edits and adding a reminder: Iceman #4 and #5 are shipping bi-weekly, so issue #5 is due out September 6th, in just TWO WEEKS!

[HASH]DakenRemembers