ICEMAN - Ongoing Series - General Discussion

There's a difference between Captain America being a Nazi and Iceman being gay. Multiple differences, in fact. I'm sure you're well aware of what the main differences are.

Yes, Marvel did earn a shitty, shitty reputation when it comes to queer representation. And they would have to be The Dumbest People On The Goddamn Planet to think that revealing Iceman as being from another reality wouldn't hurt their reputation even more. They would have to be Trump-level idiots to think it wouldn't result in a massive shitstorm that would destroy virtually every bit of goodwill they've earned from the queer community and people who support queer representation.

Ben Reilly was dead for 20 years, and now that he's back, he's written as being quite a bit different from Peter Parker. It's actually the whole point of the series. And different people wearing mantles is different from different versions of the same character being around.

A lot of people don't like Old Man Logan specifically because they don't see him as the real Logan. Alternate reality versions of characters are never seen as being as valid as the "real," main-universe versions. So, yeah, revealing that Iceman's from another reality would result in him being seen by the vast majority of the audience as being fake. And there's no goddamn way they are going to have two versions of the same character who are literally identical in every single way aside from who each likes to kiss. That is not going to happen. There is no point in doing that. That shit would be boring. If the "real" Iceman comes back, the gay one will be dropped quickly after. There's only going to be one adult Iceman running around.

I know you love Iceman. But you are straight-up frigging delusional if you think Marvel would actually have two adult versions of the character running around. It won't happen. It's just not an option. He is simply not popular enough for that to be even remotely a good idea. Literally the only reason iceman has a solo right now is because he came out as gay, because there are not anywhere near enough Iceman fans to support a solo otherwise. The reason they felt comfortable having him come out as gay in the first place is because few enough people actually gave a damn about him. This was the only thing they could think of to make anyone give a shit about the character. So the idea that there's going to be two adult versions running around? Haha, no, nope, not a chance in hell.

Just a possible heads up regarding my theory that Cyclops, Iceman and Emma Frost(and possibly others) were replaced by alt-reality versions of themselves, specifically adult versions of Young Cyclops, Young Iceman and an adult version of one of the Cuckoos(most likely Celeste).

At the end of Jean Grey #7, the so-called 'ghost of adult Jean Grey'(I think it's actually Madelyn Pryor) went into 'Emma' body, and Young Jean telepathically follows her.

The following is a preview for tomorrow's Jean Grey #8:











Could be an interesting revelation is about to happen. Next issue of Iceman is out the following week...

No major revelations, but plenty of hints and clues. The big one was 'Emma' having a fragment of the Phoenix, just like the Cuckoos all had hidden in their crystal hearts before losing them to the main Phoenix.

I'm guessing this 'Emma'(Celeste), from whatever reality she is from, never lost hers.

The whole issue also had a running theme of people not being who they appeared to be. I can't do it justice without a full summary, and it needs context from some of the previous issues. I had meant to do a thread for the Jean Grey book from the beginning, partly as I feel it is connected with the Iceman book, but couldn't find the time/motivation. This was the best issue of the series so far, and it was really good, so I am motivated. Just have to find the time...

I'll try to get going on a Jean Grey thread later tonight.

For some reason I feel like Bobby already mentioned to them that there was a younger version. Maybe that was just in inner monologue and I'm misremembering.

Iceman #7

Summary: The story opens at the Drake residence on Long Island, where William finds his wife Maddy has been scouring the internet like a full-on conspiracy theorist, printing out things and even taping them up on the walls! The target of her fixation? Their son, who has been keeping things from them! Big things...like the fact there are now two of him!!!

The action cuts back to West Hollywood(labeled 'Den of Gay Dudes' last issue) in Los Angeles. The original Champions(Angel, Iceman, Darkstar, Hercules and John Blaze) are continuing their battle with the Sentinels. Iceman points out they are not like the Sentinels the collective Champions are use to facing, more like really good facsimiles but without the advanced tech that would make them more of a threat.

The Champions are making quick work of demolishing the Sentinels, but a lot of property is being damaged and people are being put in danger, like Judah, the guy Bobby met last issue and is on a date with. Bobby saves Judah and decides to put the Sentinel down quickly by creating...an ice-kaiju! The kaiju brings the battle to a quick end. Judah brags about Bobby being his date and wants to show his gratitude for Bobby saving him.

Cut to them walking romantically through the Fairfax District, eating Froyo and chatting, before going back to Judah's for "Netflix 'n chill"(for those that don't know, that use to be a term for watching Netfilx and just chilling out, often even alone, but has since evolved into code for casual sex as the teens are apparently using it these days...sigh.)

The next morning, everyone is meeting for breakfast. The other Champions are wanting Bobby to dish on how his night went, but he says he is still processing and that is for him. He decides instead to tell the story of how he first met Natasha Romanova(aka the Black Widow). The surrounding circumstances are unclear, but she was apparently giving a righteous beat-down to some Harpies. He delivered a lame pickup line(like fans have seen him do a million times), only for Natasha to essentially verbally eviscerate him.

Bobby blames his bad pickup lines and his sometimes poor treatment of women on trying to 'get chicks' the way his dad taught him. Warren and John both bust on Bobby, but Lania(Darkstar) gives him some positive encouragement on him trying to improve beyond that. Switch to the Hollywood Hills, where Leti, the young woman who created the Sentinels...is planning to get out of town!

Iceman drops in...literally...and explains they kept her name out of the report they gave to the police, and wants to know what's really going on. Leti explains the Sentinels were just a rush demo to show off what she can do with effects engineering. Bobby says if that is how good her work is rushing, she should be working in mechanical engineering, not entertainment. He gives her an email address for a professor at UCLA he has an in with(that would be Professor Fenster from the old 1970's Champions series. The scary part is I knew that without having to look it up!). She thanks him and Bobby is off to meet back up with Judah.

The story shifts back to New York, with Bobby and Warren having returned to the Xavier Institute. They joke a bit, with Warren having heard from Young Warren that both Bobby's think he is cute, and Bobby relying that only applies when Warren is blue. Bobby is looking forward to getting back to teaching. He texts with Judah, confiding he is still getting the silent treatment from his mom, that he wants to talk with his friend Rogue about it, but she is off doing things with the Avengers. Judah makes it clear he is not trying to pressure Bobby into a relationship, but he wants Bobby to know he is interested in being in his life.

Bobby looks around the living room at his friends and comrades in the X-Men, all chatting and having fun. After a little introspection, Bobby announces to the room that since things are running so well at the school and he's not currently on any team roster, he's thinking of moving to L.A.

To be continued...

The Good: Robert Gill's art was solid throughout, and brings a consistency the book had been needing. Could maybe use a bit more work on the facial expressions, but otherwise really good. There was plenty of humor, from Bobby's mom basically going full conspiracy theorist(like a lot of us following along at home, lol), to Herc still getting the best lines, to Bobby trying to copy Spider-man by hanging upside down with a bit of ice instead of webbing, only to predictably fall. That last bit was genius in my opinion.

Bobby starting to abruptly use gay slang(Yas Kween) was a reference I had to Google, and further differentiates him from the original Iceman. A lot of people are comparing his partially-new way of talking as him turning into a 'Will and Grace' character, and it is certainly jarring if you are use to how the old Iceman talked. I was temped to label it bad, but it's not really bad, just...different.

The Bad: This issue felt like a rush job, not from the quality standpoint, but from the pacing. Things with Judah progressed from sort-of-a-date...to an actual date...to casual sex...to a burgeoning relationship really fast. It could have used more time to breath a bit, especially sandwiched in-between the Champs stuff...but with increasing numbers of fans believing Young Jean has brainwashed Iceman into thinking he is gay, even though there are plenty of clues he's not the same Iceman fans have been reading about for decades, that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

The Other: It's pretty obvious where this is all headed at this point.

I pointed about a while back that while Old Man Logan has much in common with 616 Wolverine and his life experiences, there are important differences. Old Man Logan fought as an adult in the war of 1812, while 616 Wolverine wasn't even born until the late 1800's. In Old Man Logan's reality, when he first met Banner, the Hulk was somewhat intelligent and had sought out the man cursed with being the Wendigo to help him, while in the 616 universe the Hulk was more of a childish brute, who was lured to the scene by sorcery done by the Wendigo's sister, to curse Banner with the Wendigo affliction.

It stands to reason that if current adult Iceman is from an alternate reality, Old Man Logan's or any other for that matter, there would be similar differences. Events happening differently, people being somewhat different...

Last issue, Warren, Hercules, and John Blaze all seemed unable to remember their first meeting with Natasha; and while Iceman didn't recount his first meeting with Tasha, unlike everyone else, he apparently was capable of remembering it. If the 616 timeline is being rewritten(as I have been saying for closing in on a year now) this is more indication this Bobby Drake is from an alternate reality, as his memory would not be affected by any past changes to the 616 timeline prior to his arrival, unlike everyone else.

This issue we got to see Bobby's memory of his first meeting with Natasha, and it is both similar and quite significantly different from that in the old Champions comic, which writer Sina Grace and Robert Gill clearly referenced. Yes we are FINALLY getting into more of the Hickman-style revelations Grace promised that started with Daken remembering the evens of the frozen arc back in issue #4.

Here's how THIS Iceman's first encounter with Natasha went down, and his first attempt at flirting with her, from Iceman #7...



Between the Legacy trade-dress on the cover with black-eyed Young Iceman...the bit with Bobby's mom about there being two of their sons...the stuff with Natasha... and Sina Grace closing the letters page saying that next issue he gets "to write all of the Bobby's, haha".

All?

He already wrote Young Iceman in issue #1, and a better choice with just two would be both Bobby's.

All...